Now that I am home and back in my right mind, I wanted to point fans of #dnd and
@downwithdnd
to the new
@misdirectedmark
forums, where you can chat with
@Thelight101
and me about the game and what we talk about on the show. Interesting topic at the moment: does #dnd as a game need ability scores from 3-18+, or can we move on to just use modifiers, if you cut nostalgia from the equation? https://t.co/cgbYcjKtwT— Shawn Merwin, floating on the River Styx (@shawnmerwin) September 12, 2019
I think brand new players should only see the modifiers. I see too many instances where you say something like "what's your dexterity" and they go +15 and… that's not their fault.
Is it still D&D without ANY numbers? "This is the clonky way it works" is part of the brand IMO.
— Six Hit Points (@sixhitpoints) September 12, 2019
If we rolled for ability scores, did the subtract 10, divide in half calculation to get the modifier, wrote the modifier down, and then tossed out the ability score entirely, I would be very happy.
The nice bell curve of 4d6 drop low is the only good part of ability scores IMO. It removes some granularity with respect to ability score increases, though. You can no longer get an ASI of 1.
— M.T. Black (@MTBlack2567) September 12, 2019
Personally, that doesn't bother me. I like that small level of granularity, but I would gladly sacrifice it for the increased simplicity.
— James Haeck 💍 Betrothed Beholder (@jamesjhaeck) September 12, 2019
There are some minor uses in fifth (primarily with multiclassing and with some feat stuff), but the only times in the non-optional rules it really comes up are when ability scores increase, and with how heavier armors affect you. Indeed. Most of the uses of the ability score could easily be switched over to reference the modifier instead.
— Shawn Merwin, floating on the River Styx (@shawnmerwin) September 12, 2019
Yeah, no need for #dnd ability scores. I got first-hand experience on this from my daughter last week as we worked on her first character. She was confused about why the ability scores were on the sheet AT ALL if the main things that mattered on the rolls were the modifiers. Your daughter is wise beyond her years! 🙂
— Shawn Merwin, floating on the River Styx (@shawnmerwin) September 12, 2019
An argument in favor of a return to rolling for ability scores than for proclaiming ability scores dead. I understand the need to rely on fixed or point buy for organized play, but doing so throws away so much opportunity for diversity in character concepts. You can still have diversity in character concepts without ability scores. You can randomize your abilities without the clunky translation of obsolete ability scores into the modifiers that the game actually uses. You could still do arrays or point buys as well.
— Shawn Merwin, floating on the River Styx (@shawnmerwin) September 12, 2019
The rolled stats versus point buy/array stats is a different discussion than the one I'm looking at.
— Shawn Merwin, floating on the River Styx (@shawnmerwin) September 12, 2019
I Suppose only the bonus is what matters but without the flavor of ability score it starts getting into the realm of DnD that I don’t care for I am not grokking this. Other than nostalgia, what's the difference between saying "My strength is 18" and "My strength is +4?" For players we are trying to teach the game, which is easier to understand?
— Shawn Merwin, floating on the River Styx (@shawnmerwin) September 12, 2019
Feats which provide a +1 to an ability score would need to be reworked.
Character advancement would be different, as I often use level 4 to increase two ability modifiers.
Removing levels of granularity decreases choices.
Already done years ago. Mutants and Masterminds is based on the d20 lisence, and with its third edition dropped the stat and just uses the modifier. Doesn’t really affect any thing
It’s easy to forget things like feeblemind, intellect Devourers, and other such things pop up in the game. Some undead sap the str value. They may not be frequent but having an identifiable number behind your modifiers is needed. New players just need to get accustomed to the difference early on.
I lean toward the Chivalry & Sorcery method of generating characters. Ability scores are necessary for performing certain tasks, and ability scores from 3-18 help keep the character real, and not too powerful. I have merged C&S and D&D to make my own old school version of rules. No modifiers, but some abilities do influence others.
The only thing required to move to a modifiers-only approach that takes “half modifiers” into account is some clever terminology, such as “my strength is +4” or “my strength is +4 plus” where the latter signals you’re one bump away from +5, while the former signals that you’re two bumps away from +5.
Modifiers are not good at showing the relative skill of a character, what does a +1 or +5 mean? A +6 doesn’t feel excessive comparatively, a +1 feels pitiful while any negative number feels like a punishment even on a -1
Its hard to imagine, but having a 0 – 20, 20 being the maximum normally possible, gives a better representation or mental image of how skilled someone is, something that would be lost in attempts at simplifying the system.