RAW as I understand it, a completely unseen attacker intends to attack a lone surprised enemy causing initiative to be rolled and if the enemy rolls better than the unseen attacker, he is no longer surprised when the attack happens. How does this make sense? If the target is truly unaware of the attacker, how can he then get an initiative roll at all before the attacker reveals himself?
— Shawn Smith (@MShawnSmith) October 2, 2019
In D&D, you roll initiative when hostilities start, even if there are people involved who aren't yet aware of those hostilities. The unaware creatures follow the rules on surprise. #DnD https://t.co/6zyk3egSFF
— Jeremy Crawford (@JeremyECrawford) October 2, 2019
To be clear, the creature would actually still be surprised when the attack happens then, right? You don't automatically become aware of unseen attackers after your turn if you roll an initiative higher than them.
— James, Favored of Uriel (@JamesDubya) October 2, 2019
The surprise rule applies only during the first round of a combat in D&D.
On any round, you might not be able to perceive a foe, in which case you follow the rule on unseen attackers and targets (see p. 194 in the Player's Handbook). #DnD https://t.co/pvDATLdx6i
— Jeremy Crawford (@JeremyECrawford) October 2, 2019
This sort of bothers me about 5e. In previous editions you could truly surprise players with an ambush etc. now the impact is lost by “roll initiative”. Any thoughts?
— Elliot Birch (@skelliot) October 2, 2019
As DM, you have many tools available to you in D&D to build a fun time. One of those tools is combat, and you decide when to utter the phrase that officially starts a fight: "Roll initiative!"
The rules tell you when that roll normally happens, but in play, you decide. #DnD https://t.co/dn4675Eofi
— Jeremy Crawford (@JeremyECrawford) October 2, 2019
The way inattentive and surprise work, the surprised characters do not get to act until those with surprise do something, then actions happen as per usual in the initiative order. So you don;t have t stop and say “roll for initiative. Start something like this:
DM: “as you are riding down the roadway, a shower of arrows strikes at your party (roll the attacks by the well hidden bandits against the party). An arrow barely misses you, Hinton, another one hits in your horse and it bucks, make a an animal handling check.
Hinton: :huh? what’s happening. oh oh, 7.
DM: OK you fall of your horse. You’re prone.
DM: Alaric, you’re hit by an arrow, make that two. Alaric replies I use my reaction and cast shield, increasing my AC by 5.
DM: OK only one hits.
Etc until the bandits exhaust their actions for the turn
…
DM: Ok, they have a 14 initiative. Everyone roll for initiative, anyone above a 14 was surprised, so no actions this turn…
If you want to break the rules, sure, you can do the situation you described. For those that would follow the rules, that situation wouldn’t play out that way.
Gregory’s narrative broke no rules, except for the casting of shield (you can’t use a reaction while surprised). It was a creative way of describing an ambush. The universe won’t implode if you don’t say “roll initiative” before a NPC does anything, if he beats the Stealth vs. Passive Perception check.
The rules for surprise during the first round of a combat are as follow (SRD):
“If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can’t take a Reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other Members aren’t.”
It’s that simple. First turn of combat, if you’re surprised, you don’t do jack. The example play Gregory described fits perfectly the rules.
Except that if the wizard gets a higher initiative than the attackers, he can cast Shield because surprise ends when the turn does. And let’s say an assassin succeeds in sneaking up on a target but loses the initiative, he’ll lose Assassinate because the target is no longer surprised after its turn.
Yes, you can justify this if you like. Maybe the wizard didn’t notice the bandits getting into place, but just happened to see the Arrow coming. And the target of the Assassin heard her take a deep breath as she was about to stab him. The only problem is that you’re having to use perception to justify the results of an initiative roll. To what are the wizard or the Assassination target reacting?